Newsletter No. 362

12 No. 362, 4.9.2010 蒲慕州 Prof. Poo Mu-chou Professor of History 下回〈十方吐露〉將訪問蘇鑰機教授 Prof. So York-kee Clement, will be featured in the next instalment of ‘TEN QUESTIONS FOR’. 預告 Coming 1 你為何會鍾情於埃及學？ How did you come to be interested in Egyptology? 古埃及有着比中國更悠久的歷史，很早 已發展出高度文明，這令我着迷不已。 因此，我在台灣大學取得歷史學士學位 後便留學美國，先後在布朗大學和約翰 霍浦金斯大學攻讀埃及學。初到布朗 時，一些台灣去的同學還以為我是學生 物的，因為Egyptology（埃及學）聽起 來與Entomology（昆蟲學） 有點像。 The ancient Egyptians, with a history longer than that of the Chinese and a civilization developed to a high level of sophistication very early on, held a lot of fascination for me. After completing my first degree in history from National Taiwan University, I went overseas to pursue postgraduate studies in Egyptology, first at Brown University, then at Johns Hopkins University. When I first arrived at Brown, my classmates from Taiwan thought that I was studying a kind of biological science, since the term ‘Egyptology’ rang like ‘Entomology’. 2 研究埃及學對現今世界有何意義？ What is the significance of the study of Egyptology in the context of the modern world? 當代各種媒體對古埃及的經常關注是很明顯的，古埃及 的雄偉遺蹟和精美文物經常是關注的重心。對於現代人 而言，埃及文明的古老既引發我們內心一種既謙卑又興奮 的感覺，也給我們震撼和疑惑：我們一方面被建造那些遺 蹟所花費的巨大人力物力所震撼，一方面也對於是誰，為 了何種原因，又為了誰而建造那些遺蹟而產生許多疑惑。 It is easy to see the tremendous media attention paid to ancient Egypt. The splendour of the monuments and the artifacts are often the focus of attention. For us ‘modern’ people, the depth of time that ancient Egypt invokes in us is humbling and exciting at the same time, not to mention all the monuments that could inspire awe and doubt—awe because of the tremendous energy and wealth spent on them, doubt because of our desire to know the purpose of these monuments: who built for whom, for what purpose, and why. 3 埃及五千年的歷史中，哪段時期是你特別關注的？ Is there a particular period in the 5,000-year history of Egypt that you pay special attention to? 我開始做研究時，專注於約在公元前四世紀開始的希臘 羅馬時期。在這段時期，外國勢力，尤其是波斯人、希臘人 和羅馬人相繼入侵並統治埃及，埃及的古代宗教信仰和習 俗受到挑戰和修改。在此期間，在希臘羅馬世界和近東發 軔和壯大的哲學和宗教學派數不勝數。 When I began my study, my concentration was on the Greco-Roman period, which began around the 4th century BC. It is a period of immense academic interest as ancient religious beliefs and rituals came to be challenged and modified by foreign forces attacking and overrunning Egypt, notably the Persians, the Greeks and the Romans. It was also a time when numerous schools of philosophical and religious beliefs emerged and bloomed, both in the Greco-Roman world and in the Near East. 4 埃及學能吸引中大學生的興趣嗎？ How do you think the reception of Egyptology would be among CUHK students? 2005年我曾來香港為台北的國家地理頻道做一個有關古 夫金字塔中密室的節目。當時香港民眾非常熱烈，塞滿了 展覽大堂。今年4月我在香港中央圖書館做的博文講座， 以及在新亞書院文化晚餐的講演，也都有許多學生、家長 和校友參加。三年前我來客座時的學生中也有人出國去讀 埃及學，由此可見，古埃及文明這門極富挑戰性的學問， 顯然漸漸得到本地學生青睞。 In 2005 I was invited to come to Hong Kong to do a programme for the National Geographic Channel of Taipei on the secret chamber in the Great Pyramid in Khufu in Giza. The Hong Kong audience at the display hall was very enthusiastic. Both the Bowen Public Lecture that I gave at the Central Library and the Cultural Dinner Talk at New Asia College last April were delivered to crowds of enthusiastic audience. I have been approached by students not only from Hong Kong, but also from China and Taiwan, inquiring about the possibility of studying Egyptology at CUHK. And some students who studied with me three years ago when I visited CUHK actually went abroad to study Egyptology. So apparently the challenge of ancient Egyptian civilization is gradually building up its attraction for students here. 5 在香港推廣埃及學有哪些主要障礙？ What do you see as the major hurdles in promoting Egyptology in Hong Kong? 在香港，獲取資訊十分容易，學生也有足夠的興趣和知識 準備。唯一要克服的是，面對一個如此遠古的文明，他們 難免會視之為畏途而踟躕不前。我認為要培養年輕人積極 喜歡埃及學，除了提供好的入門書籍和課程，可能應出版 文法書籍和字典，也許我應計劃編纂世界首部中文和古埃 及象形文的字典。 In Hong Kong, as information is easily available, there is no lack of interest or intellectual readiness among students, although they have to overcome a kind of psychological deterrence, when it comes to a civilization that is so ancient and remote. The first step in the way of preparing young people for positive interest in Egyptology, besides providing them with good introductory books and courses, lies perhaps in the publication of grammar books and dictionaries. Maybe I should start on planning for the first Chinese/ Hieroglyph dictionary in the world. 6 中國人和古埃及人對死後世界的看法有何 異同？ How do Chinese and ancient Egyptian beliefs and practices compare with regard to life after death? 古代中國人對死後世界有兩種概念，一是 人死後一片空無，那是 人類經驗無法知道的國 度；另外是以生人世界 為模型建立的一種死 後世界概念。對於死後世界的種 種，古埃及人的描述或許更為 細緻，顯示他們對死後世界的 一切有豐富的想像。古埃及人相信死後要 接受審判。地獄的概念在古埃及信仰中非 常突出，反之，古代中國人對於人死後往 何處去雖有一些想法，但沒有很明確一致 的概念，直至佛教傳來之後始有所改變。 In ancient China, the idea of a life after death would either take the form of a void, a realm that was unknown to human experience, or would otherwise be modeled after the world of the living. The ancient Egyptians were perhaps more articulate about things in the life after death, professing a belief in a wildly imaginative and yet neatly structured demonology in the nether world. The ancient Egyptians believed in judgment after death. The idea of hell was very pronounced in ancient Egyptian belief, whereas the ancient Chinese did not have a very developed idea of where the soul of the wretched would go after death until the arrival of Buddhism. 7 你對古埃及的祭祀用酒甚有研究。你也嗜杯中物嗎？ You have done extensive research on the liturgical use of wine in ancient Egypt. Are you a wine-lover yourself? 古埃及人除了以葡萄釀酒，也以大麥製啤酒。他們在祭祀 中以酒祭神，是因為酒能使人醺醉，並能引發出神狀態或 幻覺，此外，紅色的葡萄酒也象徵血。 我在做有關埃及法老時代祭祀用酒的研究時，其實並不喝 酒，所以同學們都開玩笑說我的研究不可靠。但我現在是 比從前有經驗多了。 The wine of the ancient Egyptians was grape wine, and they also made beers from grains. It was used liturgically as libations to the gods owing to the religious significance derived from its ability to intoxicate and induce trance or hallucinations, as well as its red colour which resembled blood. Beer was drunk by the common man in large quantities as evidenced by the abundance of earthenware jars for its storage. When I was writing my works on the liturgical use of wine in Pharaonic Egypt, I did not drink. My friends used to comment in jest that my study was not very reliable. I am more experienced now than before. 8 你對中大學生的觀感如何？ What are your observations on CUHK students? 他們有從事學術研究的優勢。他們兩文三語的能力，是鄰 近地區學生艷羨不已的條件。中大的書院和交換學生制 度，提供學生絕佳的學習和生活環境。 They are in a very advantageous position for academic pursuits. Their bi-literacy and tri-lingualism place them in a position that could only be the envy of students in neighbouring regions. The college and exchange student system provide students with excellent environments to live and to study. 9 可否介紹一下中大學生和校友的埃及之旅？ Can you tell us more about the proposed tour to Egypt for CUHK students and alumni? 這趟旅程是由比較及公眾史學文學碩士畢業同學會主 辦的，我會舉辦行前講座並隨團講解。為期十一天的旅 程會到訪上下埃及的重要歷史遺蹟。這趟考察之旅會在 2010年聖誕節前出發，詳情可向該同學會查詢： www. alumni.cuhk.edu.hk/aahcp/ 。 This is being organized by the MA Alumni Association of the History Department, and I will be providing pre-tour lectures as well as giving lectures on site. It will be an 11- day tour covering major historical sites in Lower and Upper Egypt. The tour will leave Hong Kong shortly before Christmas 2010, and details are to be obtained from the association: www. alumni.cuhk.edu.hk/aahcp/ . 10 閒暇時你有何消遣？ What is your favourite pastime? 我喜歡音樂、電影、小說，也拉小提琴， 能和朋友一起玩玩室內樂，是一大快事。 我也愛聽中東音樂，可惜古埃及的音樂大 都沒有流傳下來。 I am very interested in music, movies, and novels. I play the violin, and I greatly enjoy playing chamber music with friends. I also like the music of the Middle East, but I am afraid not much of the music of the ancient Egyptians has come down to us. 歷史學講座教授